Showing posts with label Van Leefdaal. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Van Leefdaal. Show all posts

Getting lost in history

I have been browsing in the Dutch Genealogieonline starting with http://www.genealogieonline.nl/stamboom-uijtterlinde/I109319.php.

Jacoba van Leefdael, lady of Lieferinge, lived from approx. 1680 to 1723. She married Pierre Colins, a man of minor gentry. Jacoba and Pierre are among my ancestors (see previous posts). The Colins can be traced back in the male line to the 14 th century with Pierre belonging to one of the minor branches. The van Leefdael's go back some more centuries.

And if I can believe the data on genealogyonline.nl, one or more lines of Jacoba's ancestry can be traced back to the time of Christ, and there are an impressive number of well known historical families in it.

Given the presentation of the website and the numerous branches which can be explored it is impossible to give an overview in a short blogpost. It shall even be a serious task to introduce all the data in my family tree, which I do not intend to do as long as I do not have a better understanding of the reliability of the data.

Some exemples : the Colins inherited Lieferinge from Jacoba. She was the fifth generation of van Leefdaels to hold the title of Lieferinge. The Leefdaels inherited Lieferinge from the illustrious van Gavere family, which goes back in direct male line to the tenth century.

The van Leefdael's inherited Lieferinge through the marriage in the sixteenth century of Philips van Leefdael (+ 1568) to Anna van Gavere (+ 1567). Philips' mother Joanna van Aerschot Schoonhoven had illustrious ancestors with lines tapering out in the first and second century, if all that is written on the website is to be believed. But there are (many) other lines in the tree which go back that far.

I haven't explored all the branches of the tree of which Jacoba van Leefdael is the "result" but I already noted a lot of well known people among my ancestors in that tree : Clovis (+/- 466 - 511) ; Charles Martel (688 - 741) ; the almost unavoidable Charlemagne (742 - 814) ; Henri I Capet, king of France ; Thierry of Alsace (Diederik van den Elzas), and other counts of Flanders ; some dukes of Brabant ; lots of French, Dutch, and Scandinavian (norman) nobility ; English and Scottish princesses, Russian and German "top" families a.s.o.

Even if the data in the website are copied correctly, we all know that lots of the family trees made up in the middle ages were just that : made up.

But this small exercise shows that no one man is better than the next. Apparently some of my forebears had 16 and maybe even 32 quarters of nobility. I have none, and I do not need any. Nobility is not in the number of quarters : it is in the man or in the woman, with or without quarters. But the quarter bearers are remembered ; ordinary people are forgotten.

I often enough have written what I think about nobility. Let the "blue blooded" members of our present day society not forget that they are not better than us : as a matter of speaking we all have the same blood running through our veins, in smaller or larger quantities. Wooly eyed optimists say they were granted all their privileges because they protected ordinary folk. Others say they only made it to the top because, in earlier times when society was structured, they were more ruthless thieves and murderers than your average person. But all, well meaning and others, made it on the back of the common people !

One final remark : in almost all other branches of my ancestry, "foreigners" are exceptions. In this one foreigners abound. Of course this class of people moved around a lot more than poor people whose only care was to get the next meal on the table, and who in the first centuries of the middle ages had no personal freedom of movement whatsoever.

June 8 1721

Jacoba (Jacqueline) van Leefdaal, lady of Lieferinge, died. Her father was a convert to protestantism and married in the Netherlands. Jacoba herself was brought up a protestant and converted to catholicism in 1689, when she was baptised by the archbishop of Mechelen (Malines).

Jacoba married Pierre Colins (Brussels 1661 - buried in Oetingen 1723), lord of Heetvelde and of Thy ; they had seven children, including the notorious Philippe Pierre Jacques Colins who died and was buried in the church in Lieferinge in 1777. He was the grandfather of my great-grandfather's maternal grandmother.

For the descendance and for details on the notorious Philippe, see the posts : "Colins in May" ; "De Ro", "August 11 1777" a.s.o.

The Leefdaal's became lords of Lieferinge in 1545 through the marriage of Philippe van Leefdaal to Anna van Gaver. The family Gaver d'Herimez supplied the lords of Lieferinge since 1498.

And a small footnote : I have chosen to use the Flemish version of the family names of the gentry and nobility in my genealogy. In most historical sources the names are given in French. And even in Flemish, there are various versions (Leefdaal, Leefdael ; Gaver, Gavre, Gavere ...).

Colins in May

I have indicated before that I am related to the Colins, a family of minor gentry, at least in the branch I descend from. As most of my information on them comes from a couple of specific, and not necessarily fully reliable sources (see the post : De Ro), I have made a special file for this family, which means they are not included in the overviews I use to feed my blog.

Let me just give the events for the month of May (I "modernised" some of the family names) :

---- on May 3 1567 Anna van Gavere, lady of Lieferinge, died in Thielen. She was the spouse of Philip van Leefdaal, knight, lord of Waalwijk, Thielen, Etten, Meeuwen etc, who lived from ca 1490 to 1568. (I just erased part of my information on him in my file - I shall have to reconstruct it).

Five generations later we find Jacqueline van Leefdaal, lady of Lieferinge. She converted to catholicism (the family was protestant) and married the "very catholic" Pierre Colins, lord of Heetvelde and Thy (Brussels 1661 - Oetingen 1723). Jacqueline died in 1721. If my data are correct Pierre was about 42 when they married. According to my quite "shaky" data, Jacqueline was a lot younger.

They had seven children, including the notorious Philippe Pierre Jacques Colins, who died in 1777 and is buried in the church in Lieferinge (see the post "August 11 1777"). He was the grandfather of Anna Maria (de) Colins (Lieferinge 1780 - 1839), the maternal grandmother of my great-grandfather Josephus Timmermans (Meerbeke 1858 - 1929).

---- Jean Colins, born in 1530, died on May 7 1605. He was lord of ter Meeren, and a loyal captain of the city guard of Enghien (loyal to Philip II of Spain that is). He married Jeanne Huysmans and they had five children at least. Jean is buried in the beguinage of Enghien, and the text of his epitaph has been conserved.

I descend from two of their children :

** Charles Colins, lord of ter Meeren and Leembossche (?) who died in 1637 : the forementioned Philippe Pierre Jacques is the fifth generation after Jean,

** Josse Colins, lord of Bouchaute ; the forementioned Philippe Pierre Jacques is the fourth generation after Jean.

For the Colins : also see the posts : "December 31 1723", "July 11 1839" ...

De Ro

De familie De Ro was een belangrijke regionale pachtersfamilie. Louter toevallig verschijnt in "Het oude land van Edingen en omliggende", jaargang XXXVI, nr 1, het eerste deel van "Op zoek naar de familie De Ro" door Marc De Cnop.

Een zéér interessant artikel, dat eens te meer aantoont hoe voorzichtig men moet omgaan met genealogische gegevens. Ik lees :

"Nog enkele historische wetenswaardigheden betreffende De Ro in Gooik :

- een kleindochter van Gerard (° ca 1570 in Gooik) en dochter van Peter (° 1600 Gooik) en Catharina Eylenbosch nl. Catharina De Ro (25/6/1636) huwde volgens het parochieregister (enkel in de klapper op de microfilm) op 14/6/1651 (en dus op 14 jaar) te Gooik met Jasper Thienpont uit Edingen, heer van Edingen-Heetvelde, en dit in het kasteel van Heetvelde. Jasper werd later baljuw van Lieferinge waar hij in 1678 werd bijgezet in het familiegraf in de kerk. Zij hadden tien kinderen (19) waarvan het eerste werd gedoopt op 19/10/1655. Een van hun kinderen werd baljuw te Lieferinge. Catharina werd in 1693 te Lieferinge begraven. Zij was hertrouwd met Peter Vetsuypens.

Men kan zich echter vragen stellen bij de doopdatum en/of de huwelijksdatum van Catharina (op 14 jaar ?). Volgens het doopregister had ze drie broers, die allen Gerard heetten en gedoopt zijn op 8/10/1635, 25/12/1636 en 8/10/1640. De tweede Gerard zou dus exact zes maanden later dan Catharina gedoopt zijn, wat merkwaardis is. De derde Gerard zou gedoopt zijn op 8/10/1640, dag aan dag vijf jaar later dan haar eerste broer met dezelfde peter en meter. Het derde geboortejaar 1640 ligt overigens twee jaar na 1638, het jaar waarin Peter De Ro met Anna Buydens hertrouwd is !

Een en ander klopt hier niet. Er zijn twee problemen : hoeveel broers had Catharina en wat is haar geboortedatum ?

Het is bekend dat de doopgegevens van Gooik werden herschreven, wellicht in 1716, dat er delen verloren zijn gegaan (zoals doopgegevens tussen 1615 en 1630) en dat er merkwaardigheden in deze gegevens staan, zoals o.a. verscheidene gevallen van exact dag op dag 5 jaar verschil tussen de doopdata van naamgenoten.

Wellicht had Catharina maar een levende broer Gerard .... "
......
(19) De DVD over Gooik geeft 11 kinderen aan. Het eerste kind wordt verkeerdelijk toegeschreven aan Catharina, maar was een kind van Barbara Thienpont, Jaspers eerste vrouw.

Wie wil weten wat de heer De Cnop als oplossing voorstelt moet het artikel maar verder lezen.
Tussen haakjes, mijn voornaamste bron is die voormelde DVD.

***
Nog een opmerking : hier wordt geschreven over het kasteel van Heetvelde, dat later geidentifiëerd wordt als het waterkasteeltje van Oetingen. Ook wordt gesteld dat Gaspar heer van Edingen-Heetvelde was en baljuw van Lieferinge.

Laat nu toevallig een andere voorouder Pierre Colins (Brussel 1621 - Oetingen 1723) heer van Heetvelde en Thy geweest zijn. Ook zijn vader Pierre, een militair en mogelijks de schrijver van een belangrijk geschiedkundig werk over de heren van Edingen, was al heer van Heetvelde en "Bevinghe". Bovendien huwde Pierre Colins (1621 - 1723) met Jacqueline van Leefdaal en werd zo ook heer van Lieferinge, maar dat wel na de eeuwwisseling.

Het lijkt niet onnuttig om de verhoudingen tussen die verschillende personnages verder uit te spitten. Wie woonde waar en wanneer ? Wie was wat en wanneer ? Hier ook zitten nog mogelijke contradicties en/of fouten ...

En is mijn bron voor Colins wel betrouwbaar ("Le Théâtre de la Noblesse du Brabant" uitgegeven in 1705). Ergens heb ik eens gelezen dat een der Colins een nogal fantasierijke stamboom had laten opmaken om zichzelf belangrijker te maken dan hij was.

Vragen, vragen, vragen !! Hoe meer men graaft, des te meer vragen spit men naar boven. Ook daarom is genealogie zo interessant.

Maar de tijd is beperkt, en oudere mensen - en ik zeker - moeten hun ogen sparen ; bovendien moet men prioriteiten stellen - niet alles kan tegelijkertijd worden aangepakt.

Fascinating !

December 31 1723

Pierre Colins, lord (seigneur, heer) of Heetvelde and Thy passed away in Oetingen, probably in his manor (Waterkasteeltje). His family supplied the lords of Heetvelde from ca 1600 to 1780 when the "seigneurerie" was sold.

Through his marriage in 1703 with Jacoba van Leefdaal, who died in 1723, he also became lord of Lieferinge.

Their son Philippe Pierre Jacques married Marie Anne de Schrevel, baronne de Pallandt. He died on August 11 1777 and did not live to see the the final delapidation of the family's fortune, to which he had actively participated. I have described this eccentric individual before - see : "August 11 1777".

He was the grandfather of Anna Maria De Colins (Lieferinge 1780 - 1839), who was the maternal grandmother of my great-grandfather Josephus Timmermans (Meerbeke 1858 - 1929).

November 12 1780

On that day, Maria Anna (De) Colins was born in Lieferinge in a family of recently ruined landed gentry. See "August 11 1777".

The De Colins descended from some famous families : van Leefdaal, van Gavere, and probably from van Heetvelde, van Massemen (de Masmines), van Zottegem ... and may have had roots in a natural branch of the counts of Flanders.

Anna Maria married Philippus Van den Houte (Lieferinge 1779 - 1849), a farmer. She died in Lieferinge on July 11 1839.

Their daughter Maria Anna Van den Houte, born in Lieferinge in 1825) was the second spouse of Charles Timmermans (Meerbeke 1812 - 1883), my great-great-grandfather - see "September 13 1812".