De familie De Ro was een belangrijke regionale pachtersfamilie. Louter toevallig verschijnt in "Het oude land van Edingen en omliggende", jaargang XXXVI, nr 1, het eerste deel van "Op zoek naar de familie De Ro" door Marc De Cnop.
Een zéér interessant artikel, dat eens te meer aantoont hoe voorzichtig men moet omgaan met genealogische gegevens. Ik lees :
"Nog enkele historische wetenswaardigheden betreffende De Ro in Gooik :
- een kleindochter van Gerard (° ca 1570 in Gooik) en dochter van Peter (° 1600 Gooik) en Catharina Eylenbosch nl. Catharina De Ro (25/6/1636) huwde volgens het parochieregister (enkel in de klapper op de microfilm) op 14/6/1651 (en dus op 14 jaar) te Gooik met Jasper Thienpont uit Edingen, heer van Edingen-Heetvelde, en dit in het kasteel van Heetvelde. Jasper werd later baljuw van Lieferinge waar hij in 1678 werd bijgezet in het familiegraf in de kerk. Zij hadden tien kinderen (19) waarvan het eerste werd gedoopt op 19/10/1655. Een van hun kinderen werd baljuw te Lieferinge. Catharina werd in 1693 te Lieferinge begraven. Zij was hertrouwd met Peter Vetsuypens.
Men kan zich echter vragen stellen bij de doopdatum en/of de huwelijksdatum van Catharina (op 14 jaar ?). Volgens het doopregister had ze drie broers, die allen Gerard heetten en gedoopt zijn op 8/10/1635, 25/12/1636 en 8/10/1640. De tweede Gerard zou dus exact zes maanden later dan Catharina gedoopt zijn, wat merkwaardis is. De derde Gerard zou gedoopt zijn op 8/10/1640, dag aan dag vijf jaar later dan haar eerste broer met dezelfde peter en meter. Het derde geboortejaar 1640 ligt overigens twee jaar na 1638, het jaar waarin Peter De Ro met Anna Buydens hertrouwd is !
Een en ander klopt hier niet. Er zijn twee problemen : hoeveel broers had Catharina en wat is haar geboortedatum ?
Het is bekend dat de doopgegevens van Gooik werden herschreven, wellicht in 1716, dat er delen verloren zijn gegaan (zoals doopgegevens tussen 1615 en 1630) en dat er merkwaardigheden in deze gegevens staan, zoals o.a. verscheidene gevallen van exact dag op dag 5 jaar verschil tussen de doopdata van naamgenoten.
Wellicht had Catharina maar een levende broer Gerard .... "
......
(19) De DVD over Gooik geeft 11 kinderen aan. Het eerste kind wordt verkeerdelijk toegeschreven aan Catharina, maar was een kind van Barbara Thienpont, Jaspers eerste vrouw.
Wie wil weten wat de heer De Cnop als oplossing voorstelt moet het artikel maar verder lezen.
Tussen haakjes, mijn voornaamste bron is die voormelde DVD.
***
Nog een opmerking : hier wordt geschreven over het kasteel van Heetvelde, dat later geidentifiëerd wordt als het waterkasteeltje van Oetingen. Ook wordt gesteld dat Gaspar heer van Edingen-Heetvelde was en baljuw van Lieferinge.
Laat nu toevallig een andere voorouder Pierre Colins (Brussel 1621 - Oetingen 1723) heer van Heetvelde en Thy geweest zijn. Ook zijn vader Pierre, een militair en mogelijks de schrijver van een belangrijk geschiedkundig werk over de heren van Edingen, was al heer van Heetvelde en "Bevinghe". Bovendien huwde Pierre Colins (1621 - 1723) met Jacqueline van Leefdaal en werd zo ook heer van Lieferinge, maar dat wel na de eeuwwisseling.
Het lijkt niet onnuttig om de verhoudingen tussen die verschillende personnages verder uit te spitten. Wie woonde waar en wanneer ? Wie was wat en wanneer ? Hier ook zitten nog mogelijke contradicties en/of fouten ...
En is mijn bron voor Colins wel betrouwbaar ("Le Théâtre de la Noblesse du Brabant" uitgegeven in 1705). Ergens heb ik eens gelezen dat een der Colins een nogal fantasierijke stamboom had laten opmaken om zichzelf belangrijker te maken dan hij was.
Vragen, vragen, vragen !! Hoe meer men graaft, des te meer vragen spit men naar boven. Ook daarom is genealogie zo interessant.
Maar de tijd is beperkt, en oudere mensen - en ik zeker - moeten hun ogen sparen ; bovendien moet men prioriteiten stellen - niet alles kan tegelijkertijd worden aangepakt.
Fascinating !
Showing posts with label De Ro. Show all posts
Showing posts with label De Ro. Show all posts
April 3 1693
Catharina De Ro, born in Gooik on June 25 1636 and meisenier in 1647, died in Gooik on that date, and was buried the next day in Lieferinge.
She was almost 15 (sic) when she became the second wife of Gasparus Thienpont, born in Enghien and deceased in 1678 in Lieferinge where he had been (was) bailiff. Gasparus was lord of Edingen-Heetveld. Gaspar and Catharina had eleven children, and Catharina remarried after Gaspar's death in his castle at Heetveld (?).
I descend from their daughter Maria Thienpont (Gooik 1661 - 1709) who married Joannes Jacobus Walravens, born in Gooik in 1667.
Gezinsreconstructies Gooik does not explicitely state that the Maria Thienpont who married Joannes Jacobus was the Maria Thienpont, daughter of Gasparus and Catharina. But I think that is a highly likely hypothesis.
For the rest of the line : "See August 15 1678".
She was almost 15 (sic) when she became the second wife of Gasparus Thienpont, born in Enghien and deceased in 1678 in Lieferinge where he had been (was) bailiff. Gasparus was lord of Edingen-Heetveld. Gaspar and Catharina had eleven children, and Catharina remarried after Gaspar's death in his castle at Heetveld (?).
I descend from their daughter Maria Thienpont (Gooik 1661 - 1709) who married Joannes Jacobus Walravens, born in Gooik in 1667.
Gezinsreconstructies Gooik does not explicitely state that the Maria Thienpont who married Joannes Jacobus was the Maria Thienpont, daughter of Gasparus and Catharina. But I think that is a highly likely hypothesis.
For the rest of the line : "See August 15 1678".
March 23 1600
Willem Walravens died in St Pieters Leeuw, the cradle of the - to this day - very extended family. Guillam was an important man : in 1585 he rented three farms in Brukom. He married two or three times.
-- Fact : most of the following lines consists of the offspring of famous, generally well to do, farmer ("pachter") families in Flemish Brabant (the Pajottenland).
-- Fact : I descend from Willem Walravens in a couple of ways at least.
-- Fact : some of those lines are bluried, because I possess contradictory secondary sources.
Nicolaes Walravens (born ca 1570, died in Pamel 1642) was a son of Guillam and Joanna De Leeuw. He married Maria Eylenbosch.
Their son Nicolaus Walravens (Pamel ca 1610 - Gooik 1666) married Maria Evenepoel (born ca 1600, died in Gooik in 1671).
--- I descend from their daughter Anna (born in Meerbeke in 1636) who married Egidius Huylenbroeck. Thir son Adrianus Huylenbroeck (probably born in St Kwintens Lennik, died in Pamel in 1699) married Maria Schandevijl (Pamel 1655 - 1734).
They had a daughter Catharina Huylenbroeck (Pamel ca 1685 - 1751) who married Gasparus Van der Sleyen (Pamel ca 1685 - 1751).
We are in familiar territory here : see the post "January 22 1670" and many others.
--- I descend from their son or grandson Joannes Jacobus Walravens (born in Gooik in 1667). This is were various sources come in play, but the source listing him as their son has grown to have a "reputation" with me - I have found other errors and inconsistencies in other lines. And his date of birth too contradicts that hypothesis.
So - until further notice - I shall accept that the line was as follows. Nicolaus and Maria Evenepoel had a son Nicolaes (born in Meerbeke in 1638, murdered in Neigem in 1692) who married Magdalena De Ro (who died in Gooik in 1693). They had a son Joannes Jacobus, born in Gooik in 1667.
Joannes Jacobus married twice. With Maria Thienpont (Gooik 1661 - 1709) he had Maria Theresia Walravens (Gooik 1700 - 1750) who married Michael Galmaert (born in 1690, died in Gooik in 1786).
Familiar territory again : see "March 11 1786 " and many others.
-- Fact : most of the following lines consists of the offspring of famous, generally well to do, farmer ("pachter") families in Flemish Brabant (the Pajottenland).
-- Fact : I descend from Willem Walravens in a couple of ways at least.
-- Fact : some of those lines are bluried, because I possess contradictory secondary sources.
Nicolaes Walravens (born ca 1570, died in Pamel 1642) was a son of Guillam and Joanna De Leeuw. He married Maria Eylenbosch.
Their son Nicolaus Walravens (Pamel ca 1610 - Gooik 1666) married Maria Evenepoel (born ca 1600, died in Gooik in 1671).
--- I descend from their daughter Anna (born in Meerbeke in 1636) who married Egidius Huylenbroeck. Thir son Adrianus Huylenbroeck (probably born in St Kwintens Lennik, died in Pamel in 1699) married Maria Schandevijl (Pamel 1655 - 1734).
They had a daughter Catharina Huylenbroeck (Pamel ca 1685 - 1751) who married Gasparus Van der Sleyen (Pamel ca 1685 - 1751).
We are in familiar territory here : see the post "January 22 1670" and many others.
--- I descend from their son or grandson Joannes Jacobus Walravens (born in Gooik in 1667). This is were various sources come in play, but the source listing him as their son has grown to have a "reputation" with me - I have found other errors and inconsistencies in other lines. And his date of birth too contradicts that hypothesis.
So - until further notice - I shall accept that the line was as follows. Nicolaus and Maria Evenepoel had a son Nicolaes (born in Meerbeke in 1638, murdered in Neigem in 1692) who married Magdalena De Ro (who died in Gooik in 1693). They had a son Joannes Jacobus, born in Gooik in 1667.
Joannes Jacobus married twice. With Maria Thienpont (Gooik 1661 - 1709) he had Maria Theresia Walravens (Gooik 1700 - 1750) who married Michael Galmaert (born in 1690, died in Gooik in 1786).
Familiar territory again : see "March 11 1786 " and many others.
November 29 1666
On November 29 1666, Nicolaes Walravens died in Gooik. He was the farmer ("pachter") of Hof te Kranenbroek. He was born in Pamel ca 1610 and was the third husband of Maria Evenepoel (born ca 1600, who died in Gooik ca 1671).
A fact is that both my father and my mother descend from that couple in two different lines each.
Another fact is that I still haven't verified the correct descendance.
I described the problem in my post on "September 18 1671". But the solution probably is more complicated still. I now think that Joannes Jacobus Walravens, who married Maria Thienpont, and Anna Walravens, who married Egidius Huylenbroeck, were not brother and sister but aunt and nephew. In this hypothesis, Anna was a daughter of Nicolaes and Maria ; Joannes Jacobus was a son of their son Nicolaes who married Magdalena De Ro.
More about this later ; I have some new clues. But if there is any help out there, I'd be grateful.
A fact is that both my father and my mother descend from that couple in two different lines each.
Another fact is that I still haven't verified the correct descendance.
I described the problem in my post on "September 18 1671". But the solution probably is more complicated still. I now think that Joannes Jacobus Walravens, who married Maria Thienpont, and Anna Walravens, who married Egidius Huylenbroeck, were not brother and sister but aunt and nephew. In this hypothesis, Anna was a daughter of Nicolaes and Maria ; Joannes Jacobus was a son of their son Nicolaes who married Magdalena De Ro.
More about this later ; I have some new clues. But if there is any help out there, I'd be grateful.
November 10 1693
Magdalena De Ro lived in Gooik and died there on that date. She married Nicolaes Walravens, meisenier (Meerbeke 1638 - shot or murdered in the castle of Neigem in 1692). He was a son of Nicolaes Walravens and Maria Evenepoel mentioned in the previous post. See also : September 18 1671".
August 15 1678
On that date, Gaspar Thienpont, who had been born in Enghien, passed away in Lieferinge. He was lord (heer, seigneur) of Enghien-Heetveld and bailiff (baljuw) of Lieferinge in 1671 and probably up to his death.
He married Catharina De Ro (Gooik 1636 - 1693 she died in Gooik but was buried in Lieferinge).
Gaspar and Catherina probably were the parents of the Maria Thienpont (Gooik 1661 - 1709) who married Joannes Jacobus Walravens who died in Gooik in 1667 (I have contradictory secondary sources which I haven't checked yet).
But that Maria Thienpont was the mother of Maria Theresia Walravens (Gooik 1700 -1750) who in her turn was the mother of Barbara Galmaert (born in Gooik in 1720 and passed away in Aalst).
Barbara's daughter Maria Josina Covens (Pamel 1759 - 1827) had a daughter Maria Elisabeth Van Lierde (Pamel 1790 - 1838), the mother of my great-great-grandfather Joannes De Vidts (Pamel 1811 - 1881). From there : see a number of recent articles on the De Vidts family, including "August 1 1635").
He married Catharina De Ro (Gooik 1636 - 1693 she died in Gooik but was buried in Lieferinge).
Gaspar and Catherina probably were the parents of the Maria Thienpont (Gooik 1661 - 1709) who married Joannes Jacobus Walravens who died in Gooik in 1667 (I have contradictory secondary sources which I haven't checked yet).
But that Maria Thienpont was the mother of Maria Theresia Walravens (Gooik 1700 -1750) who in her turn was the mother of Barbara Galmaert (born in Gooik in 1720 and passed away in Aalst).
Barbara's daughter Maria Josina Covens (Pamel 1759 - 1827) had a daughter Maria Elisabeth Van Lierde (Pamel 1790 - 1838), the mother of my great-great-grandfather Joannes De Vidts (Pamel 1811 - 1881). From there : see a number of recent articles on the De Vidts family, including "August 1 1635").
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